[Sticky] Now renamed the general conversation thread

I explained that I was under pressure to ban him because of personal issues from members of the CIA team but was trying to resist as I thought personal issues should be separate from community forum activities and that ban tools were to protect the forum not appease personal vendettas. I asked him to help me through this since it was clear this was unresolvable and asked him not to log on again.

Ah well at least it was resolved.

The above implies it's yours alone as you are talking as "I" not "us" . Are you some sort of a separate or higher being , or are you part of the CiA "team" ?

I'm not doubting the amount of time effort and expense you have put into it and without you I doubt it would either still be going or have grown to the size it is . It's a monument to the work you have put in, however I do not see it as your's despite having handed you the keys as a way out out negotiating Yith at the time of the split .

I was resisting because it would be the thin end of the wedge, the same as I have always resisted - exactly why ASCUK went down the pan. I was acting on behalf of all 800 members of this forum, not treating this like a personal playground. The forum is more than five people.

Now, I have had quite enough being piggy in the middle. Stephen rarely posts in the forum outside off topic or moderators/admin and doesn't contribute to game threads. Guy, you disappear off the forum for months on end and when you get back on you are straight into banning mode and getting annoyed by posters. I'm not sure why either of you are bothered who posts on the forum and why. I'm caught up in after game complaints and try to resolve them. I'm caught up in battles between organisers. I deal with complaints about sellers and buyers. I get caught up in complaints about AFRA and act on members behalf to resolve issues.

None of this is a problem, I put myself in that position and I'm happy to help. When I agree to anything it is 100% or nothing. I've been involved 100% right from the beginning, unfailingly, always been here, never disappeared, never shirked responsibility nor left anyone in the lurch. I've put thousands of hours into making CiA work. Why? Because I chose to do so. No one gets any thanks, none are expected - the same with any hobby.

If this isn't enough then it isn't a problem, just say an I'll resign on the spot and hand over to any one of you. All of it. Its yours. No dramas, no hissy fits - I'll just walk away.

Quite why CiA should implode because a ghost walks into someone's life is beyond me. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!

Oh, "Another forum as recently discussed was closed as a result of the "owner" pulling the plug, hence my concern ." is quite the most insulting thing I have ever read from your keyboard.

Holy shit. I go away to a game and I come back to all of this!

Demoncase is gone. However it was done matters not (certainly not to me anyway). Can we please stop arguing amongst ourselves and get on with what we do best? Our next event is only 2 weeks away, after all!

Holy shit. I go away to a game and I come back to all of this!

Demoncase is gone. However it was done matters not (certainly not to me anyway). Can we please stop arguing amongst ourselves and get on with what we do best? Our next event is only 2 weeks away, after all!

Last post from Stephen says we may no longer have a Hess ....

I phoned Steve earlier, after I got back from Sennybridge, about arranging to drop the Hess uniform off at his house.

Let's all chill out a bit and, get back on track?

I was resisting because it would be the thin end of the wedge, the same as I have always resisted - exactly why ASC UK went down the pan. I was acting on behalf of all 800 members of this forum, not treating this like a personal playground. The forum is more than five people.

Now, I have had quite enough being piggy in the middle. Stephen rarely posts in the forum outside off topic or moderators/admin and doesn't contribute to game threads. Guy, you disappear off the forum for months on end and when you get back on you are straight into banning mode and getting annoyed by posters. I'm not sure why either of you are bothered who posts on the forum and why. I'm caught up in after game complaints and try to resolve them. I'm caught up in battles between organisers. I deal with complaints about sellers and buyers. I get caught up in complaints about AFRA and act on members behalf to resolve issues.

None of this is a problem, I put myself in that position and I'm happy to help. When I agree to anything it is 100% or nothing. I've been involved 100% right from the beginning, unfailingly, always been here, never disappeared, never shirked responsibility nor left anyone in the lurch. I've put thousands of hours into making CiA work. Why? Because I chose to do so. No one gets any thanks, none are expected - the same with any hobby.

If this isn't enough then it isn't a problem, just say an I'll resign on the spot and hand over to any one of you. All of it. Its yours. No dramas, no hissy fits - I'll just walk away.

Quite why CiA should implode because a ghost walks into someone's life is beyond me. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!

Oh, "Another forum as recently discussed was closed as a result of the "owner" pulling the plug, hence my concern ." is quite the most insulting thing I have ever read from your keyboard.

Knobber

There............ I've tried to be more insulting

I wouldn't leave you in the lurch over Hess. I'm just not really looking forward to it at all.

I browse this forum every day but rarely find anything worth responding to. It's all very dull discussion about uniforms and the like. No-one really seems to post in game forums any more, other than to post pedantry about uniforms. Hence I don't really post much.

A emoticon doesn't make things better or resolve anything Guy.

Stephen calling me an utter cunt doesn't make things better. Jay being abusive to me doesn't make things better. Guy wanting to ban people right left and centre doesn't make things better.

Am I annoyed? You bet I am. I gave you the choice - 100% from me or nothing. I wouldn't be so rude or contemptuous to friends and fellow players to pull out from the next game. But I will hand over the forum to any one of you. Lock, stock and barrel. No fuss. Its yours to do as you will. Just say the word.

If you don't want to put in the time, cash or facility no problem, I'll carry on regardless. But this forum wont fall into the trap that others do on my watch. And the ban button gets locked away and only used for the five spammers a day and the rare poster intent on harm. No personal vendettas, no personal scores to settle. This is a community forum not CiA's playground any more. We have a wide moderating group and CiA events have equal billing to others. Its bigger than US and hopefully will continue when we are no longer active.

And all this because one person didn't send a discrete PM to sort a problem but instead chose to make a public song and dance about a private matter. Dear oh dear.

Still a knobber ....

it's not about the wider community or Demoncase , or anything , it's about one man deciding that he is more important, knows better than than the rest of us for whatever reason no matter however justified .

well at least you've put your cards on the table , it is your forum and tough luck on the rest of us .....

fine , on your own it is then chum . Best of luck .

So, you don't want to take responsibility for anything - or you do want to take responsibility for everything?

Jay being abusive to me doesn't make things better.

Er, when was I last abusive towards you David?

OK, a spate of negativity here.

Has CiA blown up? Is anyone interested in organising events any more or is it just about running a public forum? Originally they were one and the same, they aren't now. For sure the forum can exist without our events but the reverse isn't necessarily so.

Nothing has changed for me since the day we started - the goals and aims are exactly the same and I'm more than happy to carry on. But I'm 10 or 20 years your senior and I see things differently to you, I recognise that. I'm also a 100% person. I don't tit about, I get stuff done. I have lived my life doing everything myself, I don't rely on others, I don't have an employer, my destiny is my own. This gives me personal freedom (but limited cash!) and I don't have to live with the frustration of people telling me what to do. So I am used to it, it's the norm, it's how I live and how I feed my family.

Some might see that as a power thing or domination thing. But it isn't, it's commitment. Doing what I said I'll do and doing it as well as I'm able. I'm content with what we have achieved but recognise it can't last forever. People's lives change, people's commitment changes.

So, where do we go from here? My intention is to carry on with running the forum and running events, I haven't lost that commitment and I'm perfectly happy to do so. Equally, if others aren't happy with my commitment and I have lost the confidence of others then that's OK, I'll step away, no hard feelings. I'm sure I'll find something else to do!

I think the issue here Dave is that you see your contribution as 100% commitment to the forum, which is fine, and no-one would argue with that at all as you've put in so much effort. The problem arises when there are issues (not just the Demoncase one) that the five of us discuss (or shout and scream about), that four of us agree on and you don't, and the principle is upheld by the power of your hand on the keyboard, despite consensus, which is interpreted as 100% control.

Over the last couple of years you've repeatedly said that you want to take a step away from the day-to-day running of events, that you aren't able to commit as much time to the forum etc, yet paradoxically you've been doing more. You've not wanted to return the running of the membership or finances to me after I needed to hand them over when I went away and you've not taken a step back from organisation or discussion of events on the forum.

Why? Despite you own admission that you need to take some time away, you seem to be doing more.

So, 100% commitment, or 100% inability to cease control? I don't know the answer, and I'm not making an accusation either way, but you seem to be contradicting yourself.

I admit I was highly emotional in my feelings towards Demoncase registering on the forums, and that's a position I would retain, because it's something we all agreed would be our stance several years ago. Once he'd registered on the forum, what would the next step be? Attending events? I quite calmly told him in the past that he must never cross my path and I agreed that I would leave Fireball and all of that malarky behind and move in a different direction. He knew, and still knows, full well that this forum and CiA are part of my domain, yet he decided to register, hence there would be no diplomacy from me. I'd done the diplomacy years ago. Oh, and I don't believe for a second the brain surgery stuff, he's a compulsive liar and would say anything to solicit some sort of empathy. I don't believe I've ever supported the ad-hoc banning of anyone before...this was a matter of long-held and pre-agreed principle.

So anyway, I don't know where this is going, so I'll conclude with this:

The answer you're looking for, and that I suspect you already know the answer to, is that it's unlikely anyone else within CiA would have the time or expertise to run the forum and update the website, so it's unlikely that any of us would be able to volunteer to take control of it, which means that, of course, we need your involvement in that side of thing and wouldn't want to lose it...and your input to organisation which is highly valued and well regarded.

But...BUT. Why don't you give yourself a break and pass over some other areas of day-to-day running of CiA to the other members? AFRA admin/risk assessments, membership, accounts...all things that were originally earmarked for others to do, yet all things that are now done by you. Why don't we look into storage of props somewhere centrally? We could take it in turns to hire a vehicle and pick them up en-route depending where the event is? I'm sure there are other things we could mutually discuss and agree to split amongst us.

My point is, you can still give 100%, but just to 50% of the stuff you currently do. Others can do the rest.

I'll just add that I didn't actually call you an utter cunt...I asked what kind of utter cunt says something like that (that happened to be factually wrong) and actually said you were being an utter dick. There's a distinct difference...

Either way, I apologise for that. I think the fruitiness of my language is perhaps taken in a more offensive way than it is given. People are called dicks and cunts in my workplace and circle of friends all the time, so I've been a little desensitised to the effect of using words like that.

So, I'm sorry for that.

OK, fair (and rational) points.

1. Demoncase (or anyone else we didn't like personally) would NEVER have been allowed to book on a CiA game. No one is arrogant enough to think that - even me! I have even been explicit on that point so I'm not even sure why you brought it up.

2. Organising events - site visits, game conception, game planning, prop making, game set up, game knock down. These take colossal amounts of time and effort. My previous complaints were in this direction, not about admin which is easy and not time consuming nor aggravating in the slightest.

3. Yes, I have pleaded with others to take more of the burden. This has been brought up at site meetings also. And I have pleaded for others to do because I find it a physical struggle these days. That's why I just wanted to turn up at events and then drive away, like others have done.

4. Forum coding, maintenance and admin take up a lot of time - and brain power, it all has to be learnt. Forum upgrades are a nightmare and take many hours. Websites take days to create. Admin cannot be done by committee - it has to be one person's responsibility.

5. I'm OK on prop storage, just this means I'm the one carting shit all over the place - not least because I'm the only one with a big car!

6. Guy's big issue is the ban control. He isn't in the slightest bit interested in the forum contents (just gets annoyed by most of it!) nor anything to do with admin. I loath being nasty to people or bearing grudges. And I will fight to the point of resignation on the issue of this forum being CiA's playground to do with as we will. This forum isn't about CiA any more - I have already instigated wider moderation and democratic event listing as well as rebranded the forum as a community forum. Yes, all steps I initiated, put a case for and put in place. I don't want this place ripped apart by bullying or throwing weight around or anything remotely like ASCUK behaviour. Its already bad enough as it is.

So, is there a contradiction? Yes. I care about CiA - the events and the forum. I have committed 100% and asked others to give 100% too. Yet nothing happens. Do I walk away and leave you all to it? What would happen then? Day to day running of CiA is easy for me, the hard graft of event organisation running isn't. Fifteen minutes a month doing the accounts is neither here nor there - I spend ten hours a month doing mine!

Anyway, its not that I am complaining about admin work, all work for CiA I do willingly and with enthusiasm. Hell, I'm not forced to do it. I rather naively perhaps think what I do is for the benefit of others - making shit happen. Whereas Guy seem to think it as some sort of power thing for me and as such he feels impotent. I don't need MORE shit in my life, I need less.

All of which is a bit random as things twist and turn away from the issue on banning people right, left and centre. This isn't going to happen, there are better ways to deal with things. And if the consensus is that you all reserve the right to ban who you like (whether by vote or not) then on principle I be leaving it up to you all to have a bun fight on your own as I won't be taking any part in it. None of us will be missed if we aren't here - people come and go all the time. I'm universally hated, I know that. I'm not really bothered while I think I can do some good here, for otherwise there would be no point doing it. And Guy, it's not for power - that is such amateur psychology. That's as stupid as saying politicians do what they do for power. I have yet to meet anyone in public life who wasn't doing what they do for the best of intentions (even if delusional or misguided!).

David

In the conversations I've had today only go to show how much you misunderstood what it being said to you . You are increasingly painting yourself into a minority of one , which maybe where you are happiest.
Anyway as a last ditch attempt to get you to see the light , these are the issues .

1 This is not about ban control or who gets to wield the knife or who gets to feel impotent (FFS ) For the record I'm glad DC was pursuaded to go without resorting to that .What it is about is your statements that seem to say you have control of this forum , sole control, denying it to anyone else , and that's how's it's staying . "This forum is bigger than CiA" ....seems to infer you as the sole owner are now bigger than CiA , is that how you see it really?. This forum was set up by Yith for the purpose of organising our games . It's come a long way from there , mainly due to your good work , but in the end it is the Comrades in Arms forum , ie the property of the five of us . I don't expect to have one enact a coup against the other four just because he was trusted with the keys . Your motives might be benign , but a benign dictator is still a dictator. We have trusted you with the stewardship of this space, and frankly are happy to continue , but it is not your's to rule over alone .

2 We are pissed off about this endless whining about how much time you put in . Bully for you , David putting in 100% of your effort is not the same as putting in 100% of the effort. I remember when I had a wife who had no interest, kids doing other things and job that I was bored at ....I had 100% of time and all weekends available . So sorry , but we all have other things that have call on our time these days . We work in places where we don't want guns + nazis turning up on our web history .
HS made the point that two years on the trot you have had a point and said you are doing less, and I have advised that you stick to your guns .....but no.... 24/7 on the forum , treasurer, membership off to training days and reenacting ....then complaining that we "do nothing" .

3 I don't spend much time on here so therefore I'm not interested / committed. Nonsense . I have delivered two games that I committed to , on cost and on time . I don't spend a lot of time on here partly because I have moved 3 times and have other calls on my time .And as HS says, a lot of the posts on here are not really interesting anymore. For me CiA is about putting on events . Everything else is secondary . As you found out today I was prepared to miss out on Jaimie's big day at the RSC to fulfil my commitments to Schaulen . Didn't make a big fuss ,nor indeed say anything about it , didn't need a medal for it.

3 On a positive note , although you may not believe it , I do appreciate the effort you put in on the forum .
It is a moderate place, well organised and the website is great. I'm glad we get hits from all around the world and it is far better than anything any of us could have achieved. I'm glad you get enjoyment from doing all this . You are not universally hated bollox ( that's reserved for Gadge)

So, in conclusion , to respond to your "reserve the right" question, if that's what you want to make it about then maybe we do want to reserve the right to call the shots about this place. I would prefer to say it's about agreeing to follow a consensus as a team of comrades , with debate and argument and resolution . We might not always agree , but we will act together ?

Last ditch eh!

I haven't EVER whined about the workload I take on - it isn't forced on me - but I have whined repeatedly about others not putting their fair share in - as you have yourself, every other day in fact. I don't look for praise from any of you or anyone else.

OK, so you aren't interested in the forum. Stephen isn't either. Jay rarely post anything. Nothing wrong in that. So why the the big deal? Why not leave it to someone who IS and has been since day one (almost, first few weeks it was on a crappy free service until I took it on, with Yith doing the admin).

You keep bringing this power thing into the equation, you seen to have a fixation. I most certainly did NOT say I was bigger than CiA - to say I did is a monumental insult. I said the FORUM was bigger than CiA now. Much bigger. And given three CiA members don't participate and we run less games we have a smaller and smaller role.

Now, I'm not repeating previous posts - I have given you the opportunity to take over lock, stock and barrel if it makes you happy. Now. Any of you. No need for a coup, I'm volunteering to go.

Stephen, I'm sending the bank books back to you tomorrow - shall I send them to your work address?

Yep. That's fine.

The power thing is a repeated issue ..... it might not be how you mean but it's how it comes across .

If you can't agree that this forum is the joint responsibility of all of us, I suggest you restore us all to admin status for now , wishing to maintain an equilibrium . We can discuss this at Horn further when it is more face to face, and we can decide together who will take the longer term maintenance of it .